#80 - Rethinking the birds and the bees with sex educator Megan Michelson

Megan Michelson (00:00):

We are raising our kids in a very sex saturated culture. Everyone knows that, right? It's everywhere. And we're also raising our kids in a crazy technology world. And so the combination is kind of creating this epidemic. And the average age a child is first exposed to pornography is age 11, and that is very, very young. And in some studies now, those studies are years old. So I mean now it's probably even younger. And so we approached that of like, Hey, you have got to start talking to your kids and protecting your kids against porn. Phones are a healthy tool in our life and they can do really great things, but we have to be really careful with them.

Joey Odom (00:38):

Welcome back to the Aro podcast. Hey, it's your good friend, Joey Odom, co-founder of ro, and a sincere warning to the listener here. We talk on this episode today with Megan Michelson from Birds and Bees, and we talk about some adult themed topics. So I will warn you if you have little ears listening, we do talk about the S word, the big one, that three lettered, one that ends in an x, I think you know the one I'm talking about. So we do talk about that. Birds and bees, they are masters of talking about this topic in age appropriate ways to give you confidence as a parent starting at a very, very young age and how to talk about this. So it's not all, we don't go into graphic detail, but if you are not talking openly with your kids about topics like that, we use anatomically correct words on this episode, if you know what I mean.

(01:30)
So we talk about that and so we just get into a topic that some parents may not have talked about yet. So if you're in that category, I just do want to give a fair warning for that. But I do want you to listen because it's fantastic. Megan is just so brilliant when it comes to this topic, and this is a question by the way. This is a topic that all of us wonder about that all of us, whether you're open with it, you may be wondering, am I doing this right? And if you're like me with teenage kids, you wonder, have I done this right? What should I be doing now? So for those of you, birds and bees is focused on families with kids zero to 10. So you can get ahead of this topic. So if you're in that category, this is your show, this is your episode, you're going to want a lot more birds and bees info, and they have plenty of it for you on their Instagram page, on their website through their course.

(02:21)
So we get into everything. How do you begin talking about this? When is the right time to talk about this? Hey, I'm not comfortable talking about it. What do I do? What are the words that I should use? What's the tone of voice that I should use? There were moments in this episode where I thought, gosh, this feels a little bit overwhelming. And yeah, if you want to do all of it at once, it is overwhelming. But here's the good news, you don't have to do it all at once. In fact, they really caution against doing it all at once. Megan talks about the drip, drip drip method. Let's just think of this on a long-term horizon and just give little bits at a time, little bits at a time, normalizing the discussion but not giving it to 'em all at once. That's something that's overwhelming for you and for them.

(03:04)
So I asked Megan a question at the very end. I ask her when it comes to the topic of sex, how do you want parents to feel when it comes to the topic of sex? How do you want kids to feel? And I love her answer, and it's in typical birds and bees fashion. It's so clear, it's concise, it's understandable, it's approachable. We do talk about their most famous Instagram post, which spoiler alert is about what do you do when you little boy has an erection? Wow, you didn't think you're going to get that on the Aro podcast today, but that is their most popular post on their Instagram page. And Megan laughs about it. We end the show laughing about the funny things that kids say when it comes to this topic. This is something that yes, we need to take seriously. The stakes are very, very high when it comes to getting this right, but it's also kind of hilarious all at once. So they do a really great job at birds and bees of threading that needle. You're going to love this episode. You're going to want more for now. Sit back, relax, and enjoy my conversation with Meghan Michelson of Birds and Bees

(04:17)
Gang. When it comes to sex, there has been plenty of singing, but very little talking. Our guest can do both. She's a little bit salt and Peppa because she likes to talk about sex baby. But she's more Marvin Gaye because she brings sexual healing. She went to school at Baylor and has taken on a bear of a topic. She's from the Metroplex, and if you're perplexed, she makes sex less complex. If you conceive that the talk feels like labor. She's a dose of Pitocin to break the water on the topic, and she's your epidural to take all the pain out of it. She likes to go out on dates with Blake, go out while playing Mahjong and go out to the beach on 30 A. She used to cross the finish line with a smile and cross country at Highland Park High School, and she's about to cross the line of your comfort. Mary Flo says she lights up a room because just like her cocktails, her energy is always up. She's here to take this st thing out of the birds and the bees, and she has my consent to make me blush as flight of the Concordes would say It's business, it's business time gang. Please welcome to the Aro podcast from Birds and Bees. Our guest, my friend Megan Michelson.

Megan Michelson (05:32):

Wow. I mean, I'm sorry I am very few times left speechless, and I don't even know what to say that I'm going to need to copy that.

Joey Odom (05:45):

I'll get you a coffee.

Megan Michelson (05:46):

That's very, very impressive. Wow. One more time. You should feel proud.

Joey Odom (05:54):

I do, Megan, I'll just go ahead and own it. I feel very proud of this one, and this is my nature. Anybody who listens knows that I need just the debrief afterwards. Your friend Mary Flo helped me with a couple of factoids. I was

Megan Michelson (06:08):

Going to say, did I fill out a form? How did you know some of these things? I really was like, I thought, did I fill out something? I dunno. I

Joey Odom (06:16):

Did. Did I tell him I play Mahjong? Did How?

Megan Michelson (06:19):

What's a new hobby? I dunno if I told him that. That is so funny.

Joey Odom (06:26):

I did. I'm already, we said right before, I am going to blush a lot and I blushed singing like a fool here. But I am really excited about to talk about this. And I'm also just real quick to make it more about me, Megan, I'm very proud of my restraints because I could have gone very innuendo heavy there.

Megan Michelson (06:48):

Well, I appreciate that. To be above approach. Thank you so much. It's

Joey Odom (06:52):

Tasteful, right?

Megan Michelson (06:53):

Yeah, that's what we're going to try to do. But I'm so impressed, honestly, I'm like, can we record that with some of those musical things and put it on our website somehow? I don't know.

Joey Odom (07:07):

Absolutely. You do whatever you need. This is yours. Now, I

Megan Michelson (07:09):

Do intro. When I go speak places, I be like, okay, hold on one second. Push play.

Joey Odom (07:13):

You're going to need somebody who can basically replicate Marvin Gaye. A lot of people say it's just the exact same voice, right? Those

Megan Michelson (07:21):

Rhyme. I mean when you even tie it into the story of birth, which we talk a lot about when you were saying she's the epidural to the pain, I was like, wow, it was also really deep.

Joey Odom (07:30):

Megan, I am excited today. I'm scared, I'm scared, and I'm excited you talk. First, let's frame the conversation for the listener. And by the way, you guys have hundreds of thousands of followers on Instagram, so most people know you already. But will you tell us what birds and bees is? Not the act, but what birds and bees the organization is?

Megan Michelson (07:54):

If you don't know, then we have a much bigger conversation to have. But birds and bees as a business is an online course. So Mary Flo Ridley is the founder of Birds and Bees, and she started this curriculum and teaching parents in the late eighties. So it is not new. I think a

Joey Odom (08:12):

Lot of, I didn't know that

Megan Michelson (08:14):

The information that we're sharing is time tested. I mean, she has been sharing this message to parents for 30 years. And so what started was she would go to little moms and dad's groups in the DFW area, Dallas-Fort Worth, and kind of traveling around and speaking to parents, teaching parents and everybody loved it. And so it kind of grew over the years of then she would go all over Texas and then 10 years later we go over the United States. So it just kind of slowly grew by word of mouth and through live events. And so everyone that heard it loved it. It was very transformative. So I was a teacher. I went to college, got a degree in communication, which has actually served me well, ironically. And then at first I went into teaching. And so I was teaching middle school when I first got out of college, which was a big learning experience, if you can imagine. And so I was just hearing all this kind of sexualized language and culture from my middle school students. I was not a parent yet myself. And I got a flyer that went home one day, said, parents come. They learn how to talk to your kids about sex with Mary Flo Ridley. And I had happened to grow up with the Ridley family. And so I did not know that Mary Flo did this. I thought she was just like this lovely stay-at-home mom who made cakes because that's what turns out,

Joey Odom (09:34):

She's just dropping sex bombs everywhere across the country.

Megan Michelson (09:37):

And if you know Mary Flo, this is very surprising. So I was just like, what she does, what I've got to go. And then also, I was just thinking through the lens of this middle school teacher. I also want to know what she's got to say because they are saying about talking about things I think are just very sexualized for a young kid. Anyways, long story short, I go to that speaking program that night and I heard what Mary Flo had to say and I was just blown away. I just walked away thinking, wow, if every parent could hear this message, if every parent could talk to their kids about sex in this way, middle school could look so different. And even bigger picture marriages could look so different. We as a culture are not talking about sex in healthy ways. And so looking back, that was just the beginning of this message being put on my heart or brought into my life, obviously did not think this is going to be a career for me.

(10:25)
And that never even crossed my mind. So then years later, I have a kid of my own and I go here, speak at our church. And again, I was just enthralled by what she was saying and taking copious notes. And I actually went on a girl's trip like a week or two later, and I had all my old friends with me and I made everybody sit down and everyone get a glass of wine, whatever you want, sit down, I have something to say. And I pulled my notes out, I brought 'em on the trip and I just read off my notes and told everybody, you've got to listen to this. This is amazing. And then a few years later I was pregnant with my second child. We had a brief stint out of the country. And so I had come home or come back to the states to give birth, and I ran into her daughter who was my friend, and we were just catching up and she said, oh, my mom's kind of ready to step back a bit.

(11:07)
She kind of wants to retire, but I don't want to take over because this is a weird job. And I really just without even a thought, just said, I don't want to do that. And that was the beginning. So I met with Mary Flo like a week later and we both started talking and thought we both were just like, I think this makes sense. And in a really cool way. She was like, I've been thinking about this for 10 years, and who would take over and just praying for someone to come in and I think you're it. And I was like, this seems so weird, but I think I am too. I am pregnant with my second kid. I'm going to give birth and then go back to Peru where we were living. Nothing made sense. We both, I think this feels right. So I came home after that, my husband's job stint overseas.

(11:54)
We came back and then I really just started training under her. And so I would go with her. It was still a speaking business. And so I would go, I'd get a little babysitter and I'd get in her car and I would go sit in the back of all of her speaking events, just taking notes. And so I was training under her for probably a full year, maybe a year and a half of just listening and taking notes, listening and taking notes and kind of honing that skill. And then I slowly started speaking myself and she would speak some, I would speak some and just in fact, it was more of an apprenticeship where I was learning the trade. And then years go by, we totally rebranded to be birds and bees, kind of a catch your name. And then right before Covid, we decided to film the curriculum and film our live programs so we could digitize it.

(12:42)
So we did that timely. And so we did that. And then of course we launched our big online course, I think February of 2020. And as we all know, the world fell apart and I at the time had babies at home. So it was just like, yeah, we're not going to do this right now. I have got to survive and not hurt myself or the children, so we are not going to do this. So it was just like everything just froze. Our work basically stopped because nobody was having speaking events and we really hadn't gotten the online course off the ground yet. So it was kind of, it was there, but we hadn't launched anything. And then 2021, I kind of pulled myself together and I was like, okay, if we're going to really reach people, we've got to really take this to Instagram. And I kind of had a hate relationship with social media as I think many people do.

(13:33)
Just as far as, I don't want to do that. I dunno if I want to put myself out there. I don't want to be one of those talking heads. It's like, Hey guys. And it's like, oh wait, that's what I do now here. So I've actually been really grateful for that opportunity. I just had to get over myself honestly and just be like, okay, get out of your head. I have this information that I really believe in and I really want parents to hear, and this platform is really where parents are. And so it's been really exciting. And so birds and bees has grown a ton, which is amazing. And our online course is a way for parents to hear the information that Mary Flo and I present to a live audience, but from the comfort of their own home. So it has allowed us to reach so many more parents that we possibly could just driving or flying to different places around the country.

(14:25)
And so it's been really cool to watch it grow. And then our online community, our Instagram community has been really a really wonderful place. Anything could happen at any time, but so far it's been a really healthy place to be. I feel like there's lots of people as it's grown more and more, you have a lot of diversity in thoughts and beliefs and people are really vulnerable with this topic and share a lot of stories. And it's just a really cool place where I feel like parents are coming with a similar purpose of wanting to do this better. And sex is such a personalized topic that not everybody is going to approach it the exact same way, but if we're to be, our first step in the curriculum is actually for parents to decide what do you want your kids to know about sex if they're growing up in your home?

(15:13)
Because the answer to that question is going to be different for every family. Yes, that will shape every conversation that you have. It will shape every answer to the question that your children ask you. And so you kind of have to do your homework on that question before you can start having these conversations. Because what I tell my kids, and this really comes into play as they get older, but if the answers to the questions that my children ask are going to be in line with my family message, my family values, that's not to say that that's the exact answer that my neighbor down the street has to give. We also don't pretend to think that only people of the Christian faith or only people of this background want to have healthy conversations with their kids about sex. That's not true at all. And so we're very aware that not everybody's going to say what we say to our kids, but here's what you could say or here's what we think. And so it's really our hope is to empower parents

Joey Odom (16:14):

And the bullseye, the target for you all is, and I know it's not like it's better late than never, basically it doesn't matter what kind of where you are in the continuum, but for somebody who may be listening, let's just say someone's listening with babies and you say, okay, here is the primetime target for somebody to follow birds and bees and what's kind that age bracket. If you were to, and again, this is not exclusive, I think this is for everybody, but where would that kind of that bracket be kind the sweet spot for parents to engage with birds and bees?

Megan Michelson (16:46):

So we would say our target audience is parents of kids ages one through 10. And again, to echo what you just said, that doesn't mean if you have an 11-year-old say, well take a hike, you're too late. That's not true at all. But what we really want to based on our philosophy and all of our curriculum essentially is we want you to get ahead of this. And our overall mantra at birds and bees is to get rid of the talk. And I'll do my little quotation first because it's a video, but we want to get rid of that one big bad conversation because that's outdated, it's ineffective, it makes everybody very uncomfortable. We've decided ultimately for this topic as parents, the traditional thing is with this topic, we're not going to say anything about it and we're going to avoid it completely. And then one time when at the most awkward age, we are going to have an awkward conversation with you and then we're never going to speak of it again.

Joey Odom (17:42):

And

Megan Michelson (17:43):

That's not effective at all. I mean, we don't do that with anything. And so I think as parents, it's thought, I guess, but it's like if our goal is for our children to have a healthy understanding of sex as they grow up, they have to hear from us about that because the world is only showing a very degrading or confusing definition of sex. And so if we are silent about it, we're essentially kind of just waving a white flag and saying, oh, it's too awkward for me somebody or Google it, or it's like, so what we want to do at Birds and Bees is we back that up to when they're really little and we encourage parents to have little itty bitty conversations to ask your curious questions. Because what happens naturally is when kids are young, 3, 4, 5, they're asking tons of questions about their bodies, their body parts about that baby sister, how's that baby getting out of there?

(18:35)
All these little questions they're asking and they're asking you and they're going to believe you. And so we want to take advantage of those years to kind of lay this foundation for all these future conversations. And so we call it the drip, drip drip strategy of a little by little approach because again, that old way, it's like to have this image of this picture of water just like being dumped into their little brains, like let's say their little brains have a sponge in them. What we like to do or what the traditional way of doing it kind of is. We think it's our job as parents to make sure nothing gets into the sponge. That's how we can protect them. And so I think a lot of parents are very, well have good intentions. I want to protect my kids from some of these bad things. I don't want them to hear about this too young. I don't want to take away their innocence. I think a lot of parents have very good intentions. And so what they're tempted to do is to cover the sponge, make sure nothing gets in it, nothing's heard, but then at 13 or 14, they just pour this whole picture of water on, right?

Joey Odom (19:38):

Then

Megan Michelson (19:39):

Reality is this sponge goes with your children everywhere they go. And so that sponge can go to kindergarten or summer camp or their cousin's house or down the street. And so if we have put nothing in here, we're actually leaving them very vulnerable to outside messages. And so we really want to equip in our online course, really it teaches you step by step how to have those conversations, how to fill their sponge, drip, drip, drip with your family's message, your voice, your values. Because ultimately that's like the greatest protection is we can give our kids is a full sponge of our messages. So when they hear outside things, it just kind of dribbles off. Not much is absorbed. So that is a long answer to what we do.

Joey Odom (20:24):

And I'm curious when it comes to, so I have two questions. One building on the other idea of the idea of the family message, what do you want? Basically the answering the question, what do you want your kids to know about sex? I'm curious, what would that look like for a different family? How would that differ from person to person? Because there's a little bit baseline of understanding that you want your kids to have a healthy understanding of sex. So what would be the nuance behind a family message to say for somebody thinking about what that could mean for them? How would one family differ from the other in what they want their kids to know about sex?

Megan Michelson (21:00):

So I think a lot of that kind of goes down to some of the vocabulary word you use in your family message and also your family boundaries. So every family will have different boundaries, and some people might say, well, I don't have boundaries about that. If you want to have sex can have sex, well that's your boundary. Consent is your boundary. Or some people might say, well, marriage, that's my boundary. I want my kids to think this is only something that happens in marriage. So again, you have to define your boundaries. And some people might say, well, just an adult, once they're out of my house, they're making their own decisions, whatever. So every family's going to have different boundaries for this. That's important to incorporate your message. And then I think to kind of define it, so I think for a Christian family, if they want to have a biblical understanding of sex, their family message say, sex is a gift from God intended for marriage, and that might be your family message.

(21:54)
You want to keep short and sweet. So it's kind of like you can know essentially it's like a mission statement like you're saying, okay, this is where we're heading, this is why we're pulling things for all of our conversations. This is kind of the general direction, the umbrella for where we're pulling things and where we're getting our word boundaries, or I'm going to use the words husband and wife when I have these conversations, I'm going to use the word marriage where a family over here might want to focus on, it's a way to reproduce and an act of intimacy for adults in a relationship. And that is going to be pulling different language and vocabulary words based on their voice and values. So maybe their boundary isn't marriage, so they probably won't focus on words like husband and wife, maybe partners or adults consent. So I think it's going to be a little more nuanced for some people, but it kind of brings up this theme that we talk about a lot at birds and bees, which is beauty and boundaries, and that is this idea and this concept that how can something be good but need boundaries around it?

(22:59)
And so a Christian's point of view might be sex is good, it's a gift from God, but it's intended for marriage. Or if you didn't want to have that point of view, it's like, well, sex is a very positive thing. It can be a wonderful thing, but it can also be destructive if it's outside of its intended boundaries. You want to have a respecting relationship or respectful relationship and a loving partnership or whatever. It's like you just want to know this is a good thing, but these are the boundaries that are meant to protect you.

Joey Odom (23:29):

I really like that and it makes me, but it does bring up a question for spouses who are not aligned on that answer. And I'm curious, what would you maybe someone listening today that says, I do have this kind of tradition, this biblical view, but my spouse, they have a little bit more, they're maybe undefined or maybe clearly defined differently from mine. What would you say to that person who says, gosh, I'm not even aligned with my spouse. How the heck am I going to come up with a family message?

Megan Michelson (24:02):

So that is a great question, and so obviously what we would recommend first, just having these conversations, I think what we found, which is so interesting is parents are uncomfortable with this topic. Number one, parents are uncomfortable talking to their kids about this. And really if you kind of peel it back a little bit, parents are actually uncomfortable talking about this period. And so we really try to encourage spouses if you're married, and obviously we don't think that every family has this mom and dad and these babies, every family looks different. And so we have a discussion guide that comes with the course. And I'm not trying to say you can only have these conversations with our discussion guide. That's not true at

Joey Odom (24:40):

All. I'll say it for you,

Megan Michelson (24:41):

Thank you. But it's not true. Just having these intentional questions of like, okay, how did your parents talk to you about this? How did that go? Who was your trusted resource about this? How did you learn about sex? What kind of tone do you want to have in our home? When our kids ask us questions, how would you answer this question? What kind of boundaries do you want to put around this? What would you say if our kid asked you this? So kind of, it's almost like the step one is all about the parents, because I think in order to be comfortable talking to your kids about some of these conversations, you have to be comfortable talking to your spouse. And if you're not married, then find a trusted friend. You can sit down and be like, okay, oh, I have got to start talking to my kids about this.

(25:20)
Do you want to dive into this with me? I have some questions I'd love to hear about. Obviously not just anybody, but maybe a small group or a community group or a group of moms. You're really close with something where you can bounce ideas off other people like, you know what? My parents did this. I thought that was really helpful. Or Oh my gosh, I'll never forget when my mom said that. I think it just helps go back a bit and realize, okay, what worked, what didn't work? And what do you want for your future with your kids so they can understand that you are the loving authority on this topic in their lives. And so the homework to that is back to your original question of you have to talk through things. Not every couple is going to land together and say, oh, well, we both agree, so this is where we're going.

(26:04)
Obviously that's ideal, but that's not always the case. I think through conversations and through some of these questions kind of breaking it down, you can probably get a little bit closer than you originally had just by assuming like, oh, he doesn't believe what I believe, or whatever. So I think working through some of these questions, you can probably find more common ground than you think. And then I think we've had a lot of parents, again, say, listening to the course, the entirety of it, realizing, okay, this brought up a lot of good questions for us, and I think it's helpful. I say this even to myself, to have a third party enter the topic for having you here together, sit together, watch the course, and listen to a third party, give you this information. I think it's more helpful because what I had did in the past, I heard Mary Flo speak and I came home and I just like word vomited everything to my husband who looked at me and we had a six month old, and I think he was like, what?

(27:04)
You want me to say the word vagina? Okay, I've lost it. I've lost my mind. And it would've been a lot more helpful if he had either come to the event with me or if we had watched the whole course together and been like, oh, that makes sense to hear the all together, to hear the full curriculum, to hear somebody else say it. Not like my wife coming home from a parenting event just anyways. So I would say, if you're not on the same page, don't dismiss the whole topic together and just say, well, then even talk about it, find your common ground and focus on that.

Joey Odom (27:41):

Yeah, I laugh, Megan. I was just sitting here giggling at hearing the word vagina. You talk about this is such a, I think, slightly uncomfortably, right? Because to your point, it's not an easy topic to talk about, and then you bring out the inner child and somebody who just giggles and they hear a private part word. And so it's just such a good, this is why I love the drip, drip, drip because it takes a little bit of the mystique or just it becomes part of the conversation in an appropriate way. So I love that, and I just pictured your husband just hearing that and be like, what are you talking about?

Megan Michelson (28:23):

Six month old? He was like, are you

Joey Odom (28:24):

Kidding? Yeah. Okay, got it, honey. Yeah, exactly. I would love to hear an example, and it's interesting for people, well, maybe to put a bow on that last piece of it, the thing that I hear a lot from that is you don't have to commit necessarily, and correct me if I'm wrong, for a couple of who's listening who may feel like they're misaligned, you don't necessarily have to commit to coming to the same resolution. That very well could be the end resolution, but just commit to talking about it. Just commit to that. Don't make it this like, oh, and anything short of that is a failure, but just I love the idea of just a commitment to talking about it together, and maybe you end up on the exact same page and that would be great if so, but at least you've given that the conversation. So is that a decent goal for somebody? Just let's talk about it. So I'm interested when you said it's for people who, with kids ages one to 10, how does this play out for, if you have a one-year-old, I'm curious in what does that drip, drip drip method look like when you have a one-year-old who's just beginning to become verbal? How does one talk about these sorts of things with a 1-year-old,

Megan Michelson (29:35):

Well, one not much, but totally tunes we say zero to 10 because I think if parents hear this message and here take the course when their kids are that little, they are so far ahead of the topic. Got it, you're ready. Got it. Do you have to say anything to your 1-year-old? Absolutely not. Got it. You're not behind. We're not

Joey Odom (30:05):

A bunch of parents with 13, 13 months olds just breathe a sigh of relief. That's good. Honestly,

Megan Michelson (30:09):

There's so much panic, I feel like around parenting these days. Some people have said Zero, so this is time. I'm like, oh, please don't literally in that sense, it's just that from zero to 10 you can have so many conversations and set the tone in those pre puberty years yourself and your children. So not only are your children hearing all this age appropriate information from you, you are gaining confidence in this language and in this tone of voice and the way that you answer questions like, I got this. And so when the dial turns up with puberty and all those fun years ahead, it's like, we've been talking about this forever and I feel comfortable using these words. My kids feel comfortable with me and asking these questions like We've already developed this pattern of trust and communication that took 10 years to build, and it might get a little bit more uncomfortable, but we already have that pathway really is established.

(31:04)
And so what does that sound like for those young kids? I would say when they're really little in your potty training, it is using anatomically correct words for body parts. Penis is not a bad word. It's not a bad part. Vagina is not a bad word. It's not a bad part. If you really want to blush, people sometimes will come at me with the word vulva and they're like, it's actually the vulva. I'm like, thank you so much. I do know that. But if we can barely get people to say vagina, there's absolutely no way. I'm

Joey Odom (31:32):

Good luck on vulva. Yeah,

Megan Michelson (31:34):

I'm not going to lead with that. I'm just not to let our kids know, Hey, these are body parts and these are the body boundaries with them. No one looks at them, no one touches them, no one takes pictures of 'em. And that's just the way it is. Everybody, half the world has 'em. Okay, let's move on. That's your head fingers and toes and kind of help normalize and establish those clear body boundaries. Because ultimately what we're trying to do by using the anatomically correct words for their private parts is to protect them from abuse. And that is the number one reason that we really encourage parents to start with these words. So we are not trying to think that they need to understand sexual intercourse at age four. That is not what we're trying to do. We are trying to take away the taboo of this topic and to equip and empower parents to empower their children.

(32:21)
And so what happens with young children, unfortunately in sexual abuse cases is everything's just think about a dark room and everything's just running around in darkness. What we are essentially asking parents is just to turn on the light. And so they say it's not taking away any of the issues, but there's all of a sudden clarity, oh, my mom talks to me about this. Oh, I know that's not okay. We always talk about private parts. So what does private mean? Oh, well, private means no one can look at touch or take pictures of, or like, oh, the neighbor's over playing in the bedroom and they're playing doctor guys. We always keep the door open while we play. And remember, we never look at somebody else's private parts, so I'll put your clothes on please. You are just having that drip, drip, drip language with your young children of what's okay and what's not okay.

(33:10)
Because what can happen so much is everything is kind of gray. Where a child, I think, well, I didn't like that. I don't know how I felt about that, but I don't have the language to talk about this. I don't know what that is. I don't know why that felt weird. And so essentially we're just making it a very black and white issue to say, Hey, these are what these parts are. They're not bad parts, but these are the boundaries for these body parts. And there's no shame and these conversations, and there's no taboo ness here. Oh, this is what my mom talk to me about this all the time, because that way when lines are crossed, God forbid they know what to do or they know like, oh, my mom's always talking about this. So ultimately it's a way to protect our kids. And so that's not only is it helpful for building future conversations about reproduction and all these fun things that is helpful, but the most important reason is really to protect our kids.

Joey Odom (34:02):

I love that you made that connection, and that's not a connection I would've naturally made at all. Understanding that connection between that and abuse and turning the light on. I mean that alone right there, I think I can feel almost the angst well up in my chest hearing that it's almost like, holy crap, we got to get everybody on this course. You know what I mean? Because maybe if a parent's listening who felt that same little bit of overwhelm rise up, what you all are here for and the reason why you've grown so much is because you make this very approachable that yes, there is, you can have a strategy around this and it's not. So thank you for making that connection on abuse. What, again, if the stakes weren't high enough already, there's a way to really heighten the stakes on it.

Megan Michelson (34:55):

And I think it also, sure, it heightens the angst about it, but I also think it heightens or takes away maybe our discomfort. I think most parents to protect their kids. And so a lot of people are like, well, I just could never say that word. I would just die like, Ooh, penis, ooh, hey listen, is actually, if you talk to any abuse expert, they will tell you this is the number one thing that we can do. I think most parents are like, okay, I can get over it. When you start young, it kind of becomes a common thing. And honestly, kids in these young years are going to give you a ton of practice. I have a daughter and two sons, and so I feel like it is just part of our vocabulary over the years, and my sons particularly have given me so much practice in body boundaries.

(35:42)
It's like in the bathtub, guys, knock it off. Never touch somebody else's private parts. Stop touching his penis. Guys, get out. If you're going to wrestle, put your underwear on. We never touch somebody else's private parts. You are having these conversations over and over and over again whereby the end of it, it's like doesn't make you uncomfortable because you're used to it. And so then when cousins get involved or big neighborhoods or other things, those boundaries are very clear and they know like, oh, we don't take our clothes off with our friends. Oh, we don't touch somebody else's private parts. That's not taboo. That's not secret

Aro Member (36:17):

For me. It wasn't just in the last month, maybe our two and a half year old has started saying, and she's very direct and intense, and she just comes up to us now comes up to me at least. She says, daddy, no, look at your phone. Look at me.

Megan Michelson (36:32):

Look

Aro Member (36:32):

At me. Not always sometimes. And when I heard that it was a knife to the chest, and I would say probably at least my screen time isn't obscene, but it's enough to have caught her attention.

Joey Odom (36:45):

We love hearing stories from the Aro community. The one you just heard actually comes from our voices of Aro episodes where I sit down with Aro members and they share about their stories and their lives with ro. Make sure to check out the voices of Aro episodes, and if you're a member who would like to share your own story with ro, please email us@storiesatgoro.com. Did you find there's a boundary between or a line? Is there a fine line between boundaries and shame? Do you know what I mean? If you say, Hey, don't touch his penis, they're talking about your brother that can induce like this, a little bit of a hand slap that could make it feel like, okay, is there something shameful about that? I don't know if that question makes sense, but is there a fine line between boundaries and shame?

Megan Michelson (37:33):

Yes, and I think so much, and we talk about this a lot, but I think so much goes back to your tone of voice. So we really encourage parents, and I do think this is one reason Instagram has actually been very helpful for us because you can hear a tone of voice. You can see facial expressions when you're talking to a child or I'm having these fake conversations with my pretend kids off screen. It's like you're not saying stop touching your brother's penis. Oh my gosh, stop

(38:02)
My God that you're not having this emotionally driven response that is going to create, you want to be very medical and matter of fact, and that is kind of like your own of voice you want to have of like, it's what? It's sweetheart, stop doing that. Please. I've told you three times, do not touch your brother's private parts. Come with me and we're going to put our underwear on. It's very calm. It's a very matter of fact, tone of voice. Because the reality is, and if you have young kids, I don't have to tell you this, but it might be reassuring, is that children are silly and children are especially silly when it comes to private. You are, and that's not a bad thing that's age appropriate. But what that does mean is that it gives you ample opportunities to speak into that in a very medical and matter of fact way. And so we see a lot of times parents use what we call wingy, wingy words for these body parts. And we don't need to get into all those examples, but I'm sure y'all are listening. You could kind of think, oh yeah, then we call it this, or we call it this or whatever.

Joey Odom (38:58):

Yeah, you have to have a premium membership of the Aro podcast. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we'll do that off air. If

Megan Michelson (39:03):

We had a chat option in the corner, it would be very

Joey Odom (39:05):

Distracting right now,

Megan Michelson (39:07):

But we don't so move on everybody. The point is, kids already have that feeling that's in them. And so if we call it our wingy wingy or whatever you want to call it, that kind of enhances the silliness that they already have with it. And if we only call it, we always joke with parents sometimes that it's like, oh, that's your private parts, and we got to just whisper that part. Everything else has a word, no big deal. Head, shoulders, knees, toes, ear lobes, we even weird names. But then we'd like, oh, you're privates. That is enhancing shame, that secret. And so what we're trying to do is meet in the middle and be like, well, yeah, they will have age appropriate silliness, but it's our job as the parents to be medical and respectful because that is the best way that we can educate our children and empower them to be in charge of their own bodies and good touch first, bad touch.

Joey Odom (40:00):

Right. It is interesting when you talk about, and this goes into maybe a little bit of the shame question and the boundaries and the tone. And by the way, for those who don't follow birds and bees in your Instagram, I do love you looking off camera talking to the fake children that are there. It really is a great way for people to digest what you're saying and process it and understand like, oh, okay, here's how I see how tone of voice matters. But I think your most popular post was all about what you do when a boy has an erection and is asking about it. And it was fascinating to me that you had, so, I mean hundreds of thousands of likes of people who were looking at this, looking at this. And I would love your, actually, I'm not going to give my theory on why that was so popular. Why do you think that was so popular all of a sudden? I'm just completely restraining myself on making a double entendre. I'm not going to, why do you think this, do you, this post was so big?

Megan Michelson (41:03):

Well, I think one of these days, my hope is that this is not what I'm known for forever because my girlfriends are always like, how's your erection reel doing

Joey Odom (41:14):

Your erection reel?

Megan Michelson (41:15):

Yeah. I'm like, oh my gosh. Well, we talk about this forever. I don't know. But honestly, it's so funny too because I get asked that question all the time, and we are just to clear up the air or any weird thoughts you're having right now, we're talking about young kids, young boys who are having an erection if they're playing with their penis watching TV or whatnot. So I'm not dealing with 14 year olds right now. Okay, so please don't get your head on straight. Okay. So I'm dealing with little boys here, and I think moms particularly are thinking like, oh my gosh, what's happening? What happened to my son? Why is he doing this so weird. And it's a very common experience and young kids, it's even babies. So this is not a sexualized thought anyways, so of course we have this little answer of like, oh, that's just the blood brushing to your penis, leave it alone kind of thing.

(42:01)
And I think that real went viral because I think it is such a shocking conversation. I think a lot of parents, we can say that, or I think there also is a lot of, I didn't know other people dealt with that. I think a lot of times that's not really a playground chatter like, Hey, playground moms, has your son had an erection recently? I just don't think people like to talk about this. And so I think it was like, oh my gosh, me too kind of thought, wait, that just happened to me. What do I say about this? I never knew what to say about this. I always panic. So I think there's always a little shock and awe with that topic, no doubt. And then I think it was really relatable. I think a lot of parents related to it, so I think that's why it went viral, but

Joey Odom (42:52):

It was just so clear. It really was. It was just so clear. And I mean, again, that's how you approach all of this, but it's so clear. But I think it was you give clarity on everything, but that really got into the taboo, what you said. It really did dive into the taboo that you're not going to go ask. You're not going to just casually ask your Sunday school what you do in that situation. Totally.

Megan Michelson (43:17):

It was funny. I mean, that definitely, it's funny. And then of course after a while, okay, I can stop going viral now because then it gets up to this weird thing, and there I am on Instagram talking about erections, like, okay, that's enough. We can get back to our audience.

(43:35)
Oh my goodness was funny. But again, it helps, I think it helps parents here, and that's something I personally love to do as empower parents to say, you can do this because I love doing this. I feel like this is what I'm supposed to do, but that's not helpful. What's helpful is you doing it. And so if I could help you as a mom in Oklahoma, feel like you have these conversations in your home, that is amazing. I'm not going to your house and I'm not talking to your kids. And there are going to be outside influences on your kids, particularly as they get older. And those can be really helpful and positive. But ultimately as a parent, I think it is our responsibility to help shape this, help shape their sexual character, if you will, and understanding these things and let them know, Hey, this is a topic that we're going to talk about. I'd

Joey Odom (44:19):

Love to shift over to what's such a battleground in homes, which is technology. And I know your focus is for parents with kids, zero to 10, one to 10 to get ahead of it. But how do you think, I mean, you have an 11-year-old, so as you're approaching the years when kids begin to get phones, how do you see, thinking about Mary Flo when she started doing this, this was smartphones were not a thing. And so it has changed, absolutely changed the landscape of how we talk about sex and how kids relate to sex and when they're introduced to sexual things. What is your, I'm going to leave it very, very broad when it comes to technology, when it comes to particularly smartphones, how are you advising families to approach and view that topic?

Megan Michelson (45:06):

So we really encourage parents, obviously with our topic, technology falls in under pornography exposure. That is kind of what we are focused on at birds and bees when it comes to technology. Obviously, personally, I'm very interested in slow tech and how to navigate this with my kids and how we're going to handle this and all these other things, but specifically with birds and bees, we talk a lot about pornography in our course because in this day and age, which everyone knows this, but I think sometimes these statistics are shocking. We are raising our kids in a very sex saturated culture. Everyone knows that, right? It's everywhere. And we're also raising our kids in a crazy technology world. And so the combination is kind of creating this epidemic of pornography. And the average age a child is first exposed to pornography is age 11. And that is very, very young.

(45:56)
And in some studies now, those studies are years old. So I mean now it's probably even younger. And so we approach that of like, Hey, you have got to start talking to your kids and protecting your kids against porn. But then that raises the question, well, I don't want to talk to my young kids about porn. I don't want to introduce this topic to them. Again, what we really try to do at Birds and Bees is take these big topics and break 'em down into age appropriate ways. Again, what we don't want you to do with these important topics is to think it's a one and done thing. So what we don't want you to do is to talk to your 11-year-old and say, here's your phone, or whatever you're doing. Don't look at porn. It's really bad for you. That's not helpful at all.

(46:38)
But when they're really young, because the reality is they may not have their own phone, but kids are around screens. Kids watch tv, kids might play games on a iPad or something. So when they're really young, have these little conversations about, okay, guys, mommy has to type in the password to the iPad because we got to be really careful with what we see. And that is just a little drip of a conversation. So when they're three or four, letting them know this is not all fun and games because I am guess a slow tech category, but I'm also not a no tech person, right? Yes. I'm trying to navigate that balance. I think you would agree of, okay, well, jokes on me because your mom has, or my kids, because your mom has an Instagram job. So I can't just be like, social media is the devil, or phones are terrible.

(47:28)
It's like phones are a healthy tool in our life and they can do really great things, but we have to be really careful with them. So that can start all the way down at three or four of when you're typing in the password to the phone or to the iPad. We just have to be really careful with what we see. There are some really good things out there, but there are also some bad things. And then kind of how we define private. A lot of times kids, what does private mean? Private can be this elusive word. So earlier we defined, well, private means no one can look at touch or take pictures of, and that's a phrase you can repeat all the time. And so going back to this protecting our kids from pornography conversation, it's this a concept of good pictures and bad pictures.

(48:06)
Well, what's a bad picture? Well, a bad picture is a picture that makes you kind of feel icky in your tummy or a bad picture can be kind of scary and make you want to look away. Or a bad picture can also be of someone's private parts. Because remember, we never look at somebody else's private parts. So you're like, you're having these little conversations with them to protect them. And we've had a lot of parents follow up and parents sharing their stories in our community is really, really awesome because I feel like it kind of unifies everybody, but it also encourages other parents, I think, to do the same. So we've had so many parents say, listen, my kid came up to me. We were at my parents' house or the grandparents' house and something, an ad popped up in my mother-in-law's, iPad, whatever. And sometimes people say grandparents' house are the most dangerous because they don't have lock down, not because grandparents are weird, but just because they don't have the technology filters or whatever.

(48:59)
But he knew what to do. If you see a bad picture, you're not a bad person. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to stop, run and tell. So you're training your kid in age appropriate ways. That's the other thing. I think some people think pornography, no, I don't want my five-year-old to know about that. You don't even have to use the word pornography. And so what we're doing though is we're, we're assessing the reality of the world that we live in. We live in a technology world, and again, that's not always a bad thing. And so we just have to equip our children and we are trying to equip parents to equip their children to know how to navigate this. And so that is a conversation that we want to have. Now, obviously as your kids get older and those teen years and phones, then the conversation would be a little bit more straightforward.

(49:42)
This is what pornography is, this is why it's not appropriate for you. This is why it can be. There's an organization out there called Fight the New Drug. I dunno if you're familiar with it, I'm not. It's called Fight the New Drug, and it's an organization that treats pornography is our generation's drug, and their website has a ton of great information for adults and maybe even teenagers. I think it could be helpful for them to hear or read about what it does to the brain and the body and how it affects you in so many ways and what this addiction life can lead to and how it can really, really damage certain aspects of your life for a really long time. And so I think as your kids get older, it requires much more straightforward about that and by Kayla, if, listen, if you're going to have a phone, then we're going to talk about sending nudes.

(50:34)
Okay? This is why we don't think it's appropriate. This is what's going to happen. If someone ever sends you one, here's what we're going to do. If you ever find yourself that you make a mistake and you do something like that, you can always come and tell us. We as parents can't hide under a rock with these conversations and we can't avoid it with this kind of idea of like, oh, not me, not my kid. Oh, we're nice people, we're good church folk. Or we don't even have phones or whatever. It's like, okay, cool. Well all takes is for a friend on the bus to say, well, look at this. Absolutely,

(51:11)
You can be a phone. Every family and somebody else has something. So I think we can't be naive, but I also think we can have conversations in age appropriate ways. I don't think you need to teach your 4-year-old the word pornography. I don't think that's appropriate. But you can't talk to them about a good picture and a bad picture. God forbid they did see something by accident. Because most pornography exposures to young children are an accidental thing because there's pop-up ads, they misspell something, it's just out there. And so I think we just have to talk to our kids and say, Hey, if they see a bad picture, come and tell me. Because what happens is if we don't say anything, we are just kind of, again, back to that darkness image of people are just running around in the dark. If a child accidentally saw something, they don't have that language. They don't have that life raft of, oh, my mom told me about this. My dad told me. I could always tell him. They are just trying to by themselves in this problem. And because we are all naturally curious and sexual people, that's not a bad thing. Might see something and think, well, what was that?

Joey Odom (52:21):

Yeah.

Megan Michelson (52:22):

Oh, that's interesting. I want to see that again. And you don't know how to handle that. And so it was just like this deep secret shame and that's how really big problems can start. So that's what we're trying to encourage parents of. Again, we're not trying to act like Pollyanna here and that we're going to save the world and it's never going to be a problem, but it's like you can really get ahead of this just by talking about it. And that's where we are. Just like nothing is off the books here. Nothing should tell you when you're home.

Joey Odom (52:51):

What about if someone's listening with teenage kids? I have teenagers as well. What if you said you can get ahead of this? What about the people who haven't gotten ahead of it? What about the people who are, and they're saying, gosh, I really wish I could listen to this podcast 10 years ago or gotten the course 10 years ago. What do you say to those people? And maybe not even, what do you say to them, but really what's their next best step if, Hey, I don't think I quite have gotten this right.

Megan Michelson (53:17):

Again, I think I said this earlier, but you're never too late. Please don't ever hear this. I think in the course when we talk about when we're trying to target parents and young kids, we have lots of conversation about seeds and eggs and building this, the foundation for future conversations about reproduction. We're talking about the story of birth and how baby's born and all these things. So if you have older kids, you're going to probably just get to the brass tacks pretty soon and be a little bit more forward with them. But we say this all the time at live events because sometimes people will come in here and on the way out they'll be like, okay, I've got a lot of catching up to do. I'm going to go wake up my kid or whatever. Okay, no, no, no, don't do that. So if you're feeling behind, if you're listening today and you're kind of feeling like, oh shoot, I feel a little behind.

(54:03)
Give yourself a long leash, like a six month period to be like, okay, now and when middle school starts, or between now and next summer when he goes to summer camp or whatever, it's kind of say, I'm going to try to knock some of these things off my list here. And then honestly, you're probably going to have be a bit more forward with them. Be like, Hey, listen, there is a topic that I really haven't done, I really covered with you yet that it's really important and you probably don't want to hear from me about this kind of acknowledge. I don't really want to hear we talk about this. I'm not really thrilled about it either, but it's so important to me that we're going to push through that and you can sit in the backseat of the car and you don't have to look at me, but Tuesdays on the way to basketball, I'm going to kind of go through a couple topics with you and kind of space it out. And again, that's a bit more of a gentle bulldoze approach, if you will. Yes.

(54:55)
But I do think it's kind of let them know, again, establish yourself as the authority of this topic of you are going to hear so many confusing things from your friends and from the internet about this. I want you to hear from me. You have to hear from me because I know a lot more about sex than your friends do. So you are going to hear from me, and we always say this, and it is true. It's like eye eyeball to eye, eye contact really stresses people out. So what we don't recommend is if you're sitting here listening to this podcasting, well, that's it. Alright, honey, come on downstairs, I got to talk to you and now I'll talk to the dining room table. It's like, oh, that's overwhelming. Everyone's uncomfortable. So look for car rides are great because they can't look at you and they can't get up or maybe a walk. So that shoulder to shoulder approach is really helpful for those older kids. When you feel like, or even for anyone who's uncomfortable, some parents are going to be like, okay, I can do this. This is great. And some parents are going to be like, this is going to be really hard for me. And if that is really hard for you, that's okay, but you can do this. And so look for those opportunities where you're not looking at that child. There's no eye contact.

Joey Odom (56:02):

What great advice that is. My son's going to hate you. He and I have a five hour car ride today, so he's about to get some shoulders to shoulder uncomfortable conversation. But what great that is, that is because I think the natural tendency is, I know this needs to be a very intentional conversation. It needs to be sitting across the kitchen table looking at each other. I love that you said that's really, really helpful. Which is another, that's one great example of the little nuanced ways to go about it. Like you said, the age appropriate words and the tone of voice. And for older kids, maybe the shoulders to shoulders. So I'd love those little things. I'd like to, before the closing question, I'd like to go light here for a second. Do you have a couple of just your favorite, this is a hilarious topic when you talk about sex with kids, I have a story I want to share that I hope is as funny to you as it was to me, but I'd love to. I'm sure, and you put on your Instagram, there are a couple funny posts. Do you have a couple favorites where it's justs? Just two hilarious not to share.

Megan Michelson (57:01):

Well, first of all, I'm going to go back to your five hour drive for your son's sake.

Joey Odom (57:06):

No, it's all five hours. I'm going to hit him with it. I'm going to barrage him the whole time. Nope.

Megan Michelson (57:11):

You have heard nothing from me. If you get in the car and talk for five hours, so maybe halfway through. But hey, listen, there are a couple things I want to say and then move on. So don't do the whole five hour binger

Joey Odom (57:23):

Promise.

Megan Michelson (57:24):

That's it. Okay. Funny story. We get tons of funny stories and we kind had this segment. We do a lot on Instagram of kids things, and I feel like this should be an asterisk at the bottom of our course or Instagram of like you, your kids will say funny things. If you start using this language, this is going to come with it. But again, I think in those moments, if your son's yelling about his penis on aisle four at the grocery store or whatever, you kind have to remind yourself, these are not bad words. These are not bad parts. These are not bad words. These are not bad parts. And so get that inner mantra where there's this one story someone sent us that was so funny. She was like, I'm trying to be a really good parent and trying to do things right, but I'm also trying to tell my son that vagina's not an appropriate word for our pet hamster

Joey Odom (58:08):

Or appropriate.

Megan Michelson (58:10):

And I thought that was really funny. You're trying to do the right thing and normalize these things. And that's not a bad word. And of course, but not appropriate for pet. Oh

Joey Odom (58:19):

My gosh, that's so funny.

Megan Michelson (58:21):

That was really funny. And when little kids are little and moms are breastfeeding or neighbors are pregnant or there's a lot more family changing in front of each other, kids bathing together, there's just a lot more conversations going around when little, but you just hear funny things.

Joey Odom (58:39):

My son one, my favorite one, and he had to have been, gosh, 3, 4, 5, something like that. I'm not exactly sure the age, but he started asking, he was asking questions about how people get women get pregnant and how all of that happens. And so I did. We walked through the seed and the egg. I think we actually even used the word sperm and egg and how they come together. And so how the sperm goes to the egg and that's inside the woman. And so he heard all of it. I thought I had just nailed it and I did okay. But he said at the end he goes, okay, dad, I have another question. How does the man get the sperm inside the woman without the woman noticing

Megan Michelson (59:22):

Like a sneak attack?

Joey Odom (59:24):

Oh my gosh. I just, I couldn't help but just bust out laughing. So we had to do a little bit of a re-review. We did have a little had and led more in-depth discussion, but it was so funny. I'm sure he doesn't remember, but it was great. We were dying. Megan, I want to close with a question, kind of a multi-part question when it comes the, I want you to fill in the blank here. When it comes to the topic of sex, I want parents to feel blank. I want children to feel blank when it comes to that topic. How do you want parents to feel? I

Megan Michelson (59:56):

Want parents to feel confident and prepared.

Joey Odom (59:59):

Love it.

Megan Michelson (01:00:00):

So I want parents to, again, no one has to enjoy this. No one has to think this is the most exciting and rewarding part of parenting. I'm not. But I want parents to feel like, yeah, we're ready. We're ready for these conversations, and I can handle this

Joey Odom (01:00:18):

With that. And here's what I like. What everybody should infer from that is it's possible. Yeah, you can be confident. You can be prepared. This is why you all are here. This is why you've been doing it for 30 years as birds and bees is that it is possible. So it feels so overwhelming. And so what I like about your message is the fact that you want them to feel that way means that it's possible for them to feel that way because you've seen thousands of people feel that way.

Megan Michelson (01:00:42):

So I think there is so much and some really great parents that are intentional and loving and thoughtful parents that are so overwhelmed by this topic that it's like they just get quiet. I think in today's world, it's very dangerous to be quiet. I think it's like your kids need to hear from you, your kids need to hear. And again, every family message is going to be different, but I guarantee you it's a healthier message than what they're hearing or watching. Yeah, that's so right. We have got to feel prepared and confident talking to our kids about sex

Joey Odom (01:01:18):

When it comes to the topic of sex, here's how you want children to feel.

Megan Michelson (01:01:23):

I want children to feel comfortable. So I want kids, again, I'm not trying to argue, this needs to be the dinner table conversation and let's formalize this for everything. That's not it. But I want children to feel comfortable going, Hey, I heard this word today, mom, what does this mean? Everyone was giggling about this in class today. Why were they giggling? I want children to feel comfortable talking to their parents. I want parents to feel confident and prepared talking to their kids, and I want kids to feel comfortable talking to their parents. I love that. And those work together to create, you want to be a safe place for your child to come to with their curious questions. And I think that is something that happens slowly with time and with those drip, drip drip conversations and with your calm positive response, you're creating a safe place for them.

(01:02:18)
Where know, I can go to my mom with these questions. I know I can talk to dad about this and I know if I mess up, I can still talk to 'em about this. You want to create this safe place for them that, Hey, this is something we talk about in our house. There's a lot of things coming at you right now, but we're always here to answer your questions or we're always here to help you navigate this stuff. And so I think that's what I would say. I want parents to be confident, prepared, and I want children to feel comfortable and safe.

Joey Odom (01:02:45):

And again, and it's possible. It's possible. You've seen it thousands of times over Megan. People are going to want more of this so they can follow you on Instagram and they can go to your website. They can get the course. Will you tell us a couple of those? Tell your Instagram handle your website and ways that people can

Megan Michelson (01:03:04):

Hear more from you in the show notes, because I think sometimes it's easier to see that than say it, or at least it looks better than it sounds because our Instagram handle is at birds under underscore bees, which doesn't have a nice ring to it. Our website is birds bees.com and our online course really is very easy to digest. It's a bite-sized video sessions. It takes like an hour and 10 minutes to watch. So it's not a overwhelming, and I really confidently can say that. I think it will make a big impact on your life. So we really encourage you to watch it. And then I'll send you a code, a discount code for everyone listening. Fantastic. 20% off. So I would love for everyone to take it because I really do think if you feel like, Hey, wow, this feels like an important topic and I want to do this the right way. I really do feel like we have a plan for you, and I feel like it can be really helpful. And I just think our kids, the bad stuff feels really overwhelming, I think as parents, but just you can have such a powerful impact with this topic, with your own children just by starting when they're young, having these conversations and establishing that pattern of trust and communication.

Joey Odom (01:04:12):

Megan, I'll say that. I think you talk about sex better than salt and pepper, talk about sex. This was fantastic. Thank you so much. Thank you for the work you're doing. Thanks for all your wisdom

Megan Michelson (01:04:23):

And honestly, thank you for what you're doing. I know we're not here to talk about ro, but I love what you're doing and I am a big, big fan, so this is exciting for me to talk to you.

Joey Odom (01:04:32):

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very, very much. Okay, gang, are you blushing as much as I blushed during that, did you notice that your friend Joey is a little bit of a child when it comes to anatomically correct words? I did giggle a little bit. Sorry, I'm not sorry. I am a little bit of a child sometimes, so yes, I giggled some, but how great is that? How great is their message? How great is the approachability of the topic? I just love the way they're going about this. Please do go follow them on Instagram. Please do go to the website. Megan is linking a discount code for us that'll be in the show notes for you to get their course. I know you're going to want more of that information and just bringing clarity to a topic that doesn't always have a lot of clarity around it. Thank you so much for joining for this week's episode of the Aro podcast. We can't wait to see you again next week. The Aro podcast is produced and edited by the team at Palm Tree Pod co. Special thanks to Emily Miles and Caitlin Kring for media and digital support and to executive producers Anthony Palmer of Palm Tree Poco, and the Prince of the Low Country Tides himself, rich Danelle Evaro.

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