#70 - I wish my wife knew how much weight her words carry

Joey Odom (00:00):

Let's think of a date night. Things are going great. You've had a glass of wine, the entrees come out, you're connected, you're connecting. The natural tendency would be, I don't want to rock the boat.

Mistye Wilson (00:10):

We're having a good night.

Joey Odom (00:11):

But that's the time. That is the time to bring it up, I believe. And again,

Mistye Wilson (00:17):

I think so.

Joey Odom (00:17):

I think that's the only time. At least you are taking a risk and maybe you do ruin the date night. But I think the way you go about it, that shifts from, I'm trying to vent here to, I'm coming at this from a place of love. And at that moment you have a really good foundation. The other side of that is it's giving you time to think through, is this actually that important to me? Wow. How important is this?

Mistye Wilson (00:49):

Welcome back to The Aro Podcast. It's your good friend here, Mistye Wilson, the wife of Co-founder Heath Wilson. And we're taking a little twist here today. I am with none other than also your good friend Joey Odom. And I wish that I was clever enough right now to have made something as dynamic and amazing as you do for people when you have them on. I think it might be one of my most favorite things is when you have people on and you just, you've gone into how awesome they are. And look, I'm just going to tell you, covenant friend,

Joey Odom (01:31):

Covenant friend,

Mistye Wilson (01:32):

You're awesome.

Joey Odom (01:33):

Come on. Yeah. Now I'm blushing.

Mistye Wilson (01:35):

I know, I know. I

Joey Odom (01:37):

Got to admit, it's a little uncomfortable being on this side of the table.

Mistye Wilson (01:39):

Yeah. Well I am going to be real honest. It is very uncomfortable being on this side. And now my heart goes out to you every time we do the podcast.

Joey Odom (01:51):

Yeah. Alright, so what are we doing here? This is the time everybody's ready for. I wish my husband knew, but they're not getting that this

Mistye Wilson (01:59):

Month. No, it is a twist this month. This month I have come in here and I have no clue. And when I say, no clue, I'm sweating. I have no clue what Joey is about to talk about. And so he has something that he's prepared for me. And so women buckle your bootstraps. Let's just hold on for dear life because Joey is about to come at us.

Joey Odom (02:28):

Alright. I'm not coming at anybody first. I'm just going to say, so we've always, as everybody knows, we talk once a month. I wish my husband knew. And it's where you bring up something that a lot of wives wish a lot of their husbands knew, and we're going to turn the tables this week is I wish my wife knew. And this is hard. I

Mistye Wilson (02:50):

Know

Joey Odom (02:50):

It is. It's coming up with something that, because this is topic that we're about to talk about for me, is something that we, in my marriage, Cristin and I have really grown in. This is not something that's natural, but the reason why we're talking about it now is because of how good she's gotten at it. But we go from the beginning. So I'm going to, without any further ado, I wish my wife knew how much weight her words carry, how much weight her words can, I'm curious what is that? You had a visceral reaction there. Yeah. Why does that almost like a little sadness or something? I know. Tell me how that strikes you just to begin.

Mistye Wilson (03:31):

Women are so wordy. We're very wordy people. I've noticed that. Yes. And so there's a lot of things, me specifically that just fly right out of my mouth. And I think I want to say that I do a good job of lifting heath up. I also think about the way that I carry myself around him or the way that I face him when he is talking to me, because that's also my words, just not being said. Yeah. I mean, I love my husband. I always want him to think how important he is. And I think I've said before, he's a guy, he's words of affirmation, also acts of service. And yeah, I mean, I am ready to talk. I would love to affirm him more.

Joey Odom (04:24):

Well, I love that you just said that. And this is, again, Misty had no idea what this was about, but you said it and it's, in fact, you said it on our last podcast as well. You talked about how men are words of affirmation. You just said it here without having an idea. This is what I'm going to talk about. But it is, most men from my observation are really strongly words of affirmation that when it comes to the five love languages, for those who aren't familiar. So the five love languages, most men are words of affirmation. And most women, and this again, I'm not, this is overly stereotypical, and so this is maybe a guess of mine is that women, it's almost like, show me you love me. Show me the acts of service or the gifts or the quality time, particularly quality time is big. And I think that women might not understand how much weight their words carry because they're not that weighty to them all the time. To them it's just words are a little bit cheap. If you really love me, you'll show me, but just tell me what does that do for me? And so what you may not realize is the good and the bad, it's life and death when it comes to your husband's ears. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Mistye Wilson (05:37):

Well, this makes me really good, feel good because over the weekend you and Heath have been working out so much and I seriously complimented his body. I was like, oh my gosh, I can tell the abs are popping. There you go. So that I automatically think back to that. I'm actually like, oh, I'm really glad that I said that now. But it's so true. Yeah. I know. For me and just talking about the whole workout thing, because that's what my mind just went to was if I had been working out regularly and busting my chops how much that would mean for heath to notice and to say something about it and just knowing that that's really important to him. I don't know that I always think that much about how he values how I see him, and he doesn't know how I see him unless I tell him.

Joey Odom (06:35):

Yeah, that's right. Absolutely. Yeah. He has no idea. Otherwise, before you turn it off, ladies, if you think this doesn't apply to you, I suspect that a lot of women would think like, oh, he doesn't care what I say. Oh, he doesn't care thinking about their husbands. I'm just telling you that most likely your husband does. And so Cristin, I previewed this for her, the topic. I told her we were going to talk about this, and she was shocked. She goes, wait, really? She was so surprised. We've been married almost 20 years. She was so surprised that her words carried that much weight. And I bet you a lot of women out there, and this is maybe the first homework assignment, is ask your husbands or even, how about this? Even try. Just try and see what happens when you observe something with them. Just what that does for them. So I think that a lot of women don't necessarily realize how weighty their words are. Even you said that you said about his abs looking great and you probably weren't intending to do anything other than just say something you noticed when that probably went by the way, we haven't worked out in a couple of weeks and we did this morning, which might be a direct result of him thinking, well, if Misty thinks I look good, I got to get after

Mistye Wilson (07:48):

It. Yeah. Also, I think when I responded with sadness is because my immediate question to myself was, I know he's words of affirmation and how often do I affirm him? And I would say that I'm not enough. I don't enough. And I know how much it means to him. It means a lot to our boys. And so you guys, you're just grown up boys. Wow. So yeah,

Joey Odom (08:21):

I hadn't even thought, it's so funny, I hadn't even, this is just you turning on me. I haven't even thought of this topic as it relates to Harrison, my son and the things that I, it's just so easy to nitpick and want them in the name of, oh, they need to hear, they need to be corrected it. Are you really? Or is it or you just versus saying those things that build them up. Yes. So Cristin wasn't, Cristin is great at this. She was not always great at this. And again, for her also, she was gifts when we got married in terms of love languages. Now she's quality and she's never really been words of affirmation. It's probably climbing just a little bit. But I thought about, and I have her permission to tell this story, but we were very newly married. We were probably a year into our marriage and it was a Sunday afternoon and I don't even remember what the circumstance was, but she had asked me to do something or something like that and maybe I didn't immediately get to it. And she said, you are lazy.

(09:22)
I've done this one time in our marriage, Misty. I just walked out of the door and I left. Never done that before. And credit to my pastor at the time, a guy named Jeff Vo in Tulsa. I called Jeff and I said, what do I do? I don't know what to do. This was the first big one. And he said, it is okay. It's perfectly okay for you to say to her, I love you. I want you to be honest with me, but you can't talk to me like that in so many words. Not in a dominating way, but just like that's not an okay way to talk to me. So that was a really, we talk about this when we laugh about it now, but it was a very hard one at the time. And what was interesting is I was reflecting on that is it didn't make me not lazy. Maybe I was lazy at the time. I don't know. It just got me mad. Sure. It didn't lead to any meaningful change. It was. And Cristin at the time, she told me later, she goes, yeah, I was trying to get under your skin. She was trying to get to me. But it was one of those where, but the interesting thing was it really did nothing other than just made me feel like crap. Do you still

Mistye Wilson (10:34):

Hear those words in your head? Does that come back to you?

Joey Odom (10:39):

I think for years it did. I think I had to, what I had to really do, and the reason why Misty is I had to be really careful not to let that soak into my identity. I think it would've been really easy for that to soak into my identity and for me to identify myself as being lazy. I know I'm not lazy. I was able to take that accusation and process it and not let me process it as truth. And that's really hard. By the way, that day, she could have very easily made me into a lazy husband just by calling me that. So that's a great question.

Mistye Wilson (11:21):

You came out with the power of words. And I guess fortunately for me, I thought about the affirming words like the positive, how you speak into your spouse, and to hear you talk about the negative, which I think in a lot of marriages is extremely, unfortunately common to tell your husband or your wife what you're thinking in a negative way. And it's not okay for you to tell anybody something mean much less the person that you adore and you're planning on spending the rest of your life with. Definitely don't talk down to that person. Yeah. And even when you said what Cristin said, and she's such a sweetheart to think about her saying that and knowing her the way I know her and how much I value the things she says and the things she does, because when she speaks, I listen. And so I can see how that would've cut and how would you know what? Thank the good Lord you walked out the door.

Joey Odom (12:34):

Right. That could have really gone bad.

Mistye Wilson (12:36):

I mean, I can just imagine what words might've come out of you at that point. And then

Joey Odom (12:45):

I will, to her credit, I can't think of another example in our marriage where she has put a label like that. I actually think to her credit, she really did that day say like, okay, that's not okay. It's one thing to say you're doing this versus you are this, that you are this in a negative sense. I can't imagine a time when she's done that, when she's done that again. So that was actually a very helpful lesson in our marriage. But I'll go to the positive side of it too. This was for years. My biggest, I would say my biggest weakness with respect to our family was always patience, just impatience, impatience, impatience. And I have taken years and years and years to work on it, and I've felt like I've made some progress. And she told me, this is actually getting me a little choked up even thinking about it, but this was just a couple months ago.

(13:38)
She said, I just want you to know you have been so patient with the kids. And when she said, have been so patient, she didn't mean that weekend. It was like an acknowledgement of that journey. She knew that it was something that had been a real challenge for me. And she was looking at over a period of years like, you are patient with the kids. Not only you are being patient, but you are a patient dad. And it was one of those things, Misty, where I now just the other side, I identify myself as a patient. Dad.

Mistye Wilson (14:09):

Isn't that amazing?

Joey Odom (14:10):

Yeah, I believe. And so if I identify myself as a patient, dad, what am I going to do? I'm going to do things a patient dad would do. That's so

Mistye Wilson (14:17):

True.

Joey Odom (14:18):

And it was so powerful and it was deliberate the way she said it. It's almost like the way you set the stage for a conversation. It can go such a long way. I mean, even think about this, we talked about this in the last episode. If you're being out of balance and your partnership and saying, Hey, can I talk to you about something that's important to me? What if we shocked our spouses, Hey, can I talk to you about something? And we sit down, made an observation over, you're just so patient with the kids.

Mistye Wilson (14:48):

Oh, I'm totally going to do this before this podcast goes out. I'm going to hit Heath with it. Hey honey, why don't you come sit down and let me tell you all the great things about you. I'm so doing it.

Joey Odom (14:59):

Just shock 'em.

Mistye Wilson (15:00):

Right. Thank you, Joey. I appreciate

Joey Odom (15:01):

It because those are moments where you're going in for correction. And how about you did, instead of going in for correction, we go in for affirmation.

Mistye Wilson (15:08):

I know. Oh yeah.

Joey Odom (15:09):

It'd be so huge. I mean, I was thinking about there is nothing that makes me stand taller and prouder than something specific that Cristin notes about me. But I was thinking you referenced this a second ago. I think about the female brain overgeneralizing. I give the caveat every time, but women's brains are connecting machines. Women are connecting. This has implications on this and this and this and this and this. And as a result, and this is just the natural condition to human brain. Human brain is always looking for ways to make things better. And as a result, it's always looking for things that can be made better. In other words, for things that need to improve. And so women's minds, they're always on a search and destroy mission for things to correct. And in doing that, how can things be made better? But how that typically comes out, I believe not only in a marriage, but also with our kids. And now you have me thinking about it, just saying that a second ago, that comes out in nagging. Yes. And I would say that nagging is, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, to me it's just saying whatever you're thinking in the moment. It's just saying whatever you think in the moment. Yes.

Mistye Wilson (16:26):

Well, it's even worse than that really. I think nagging comes from something that you've been thinking about. And I think that's even worse because I mean, yes, you are actually right. It is just coming out with what you're saying. But at the same time, it's far deeper than that, which I think is why nagging is so annoying and it's so hurtful. And it's why whoever is being nagged, you shut down. That's right. You don't even hear the nagging. It doesn't count. It counts for nothing. Oh, yeah. Nagging is the worst.

Joey Odom (17:04):

Well, I liked that you said that because as I was thinking about it, I was thinking about how misguided of an approach it is. It's just if you've never thought about nagging and all genders nag, by the way, we're all equal opportunity that it just doesn't work. And I think about how I talk to my kids and I'm just thinking about, I do nag them and I do get on same and just to know what's my goal here? If my goal is actual change, then this isn't going to work. Wow. So let's just begin with nagging is a dumb, is

Mistye Wilson (17:36):

That nagging is dumb, nagging

Joey Odom (17:37):

Is dumb. Is that the takeaway? I think so. Nagging is, nagging is dumb. And the other thing is, or it is exactly what you said. So either it's either it's misguided, either you don't know that it's dumb or it is just venting. It's just the thing that, and if it's just venting, that means that you don't actually care about improvement. You're just getting whatever you want off your chest.

Mistye Wilson (17:57):

Oh man, you don't care.

Joey Odom (17:59):

Right. That's so true. Let's take the lazy example from that story. Was the goal there for Cristin saying that? Was that her to make me not lazy or was it just to, she didn't care. She just wanted to get it off her chest, right? It was just to get off your chest. And I thought about what you said, you have reached a boiling point and you and your message just gets lost in the method. Your message is totally gone. All that I've heard is you repeating the same thing you've said a hundred times. All I've heard is you taking a shot at me. And so it doesn't work. So it's not only is it dumb or it's just venting, and that actually you don't really want to want improvement,

Mistye Wilson (18:44):

Right? Yeah. You just want to be mean.

Joey Odom (18:47):

Yeah. You just kind

Mistye Wilson (18:48):

Of want to be, and I know we're not thinking that. We're not thinking intentionally, I'm just going to be mean to my husband today

Joey Odom (18:54):

Or back over. Yeah.

Mistye Wilson (18:55):

Let me ask you,

(18:58)
Because I can think of possibly some of my friends, especially a good friend of mine who is now divorced, if the wife is in a position where in that moment I don't know what positive feedback to give you, I have this feeling of such negativity towards you that you've been doing the same thing over and over and over. And I've really tried to be loving, haven't really affirmed you necessarily, but I've tried to be loving and patient with it. And I'm looking at you, and I'm trying to think of a way to affirm you in some way. But I have gotten to a point in the marriage that I'm so discouraged I can't find the positive to say, where do I start?

Joey Odom (19:56):

By the way, please do continue to poke holes in this is and ask questions about it. I mean, I think that this, again, we're firm believers. It's never too late, but the earlier the better. And so this is super helpful early as a rhythm in that. And when you get to that point, specific to nagging, my thought would be like, that to me is just putting gas on the fire right there. The nagging will only make it worse. Truly, it makes it even more combustible at that time when you're at such a point where the only lens you see through is a negative lens. I mean, that's obviously therapy time. That's counseling time to be able to get back and get some rules that you can get back on the right track for. So I would say particularly when it comes to nagging, and again, even as I'm, I am thinking about your question out loud, I would say that this conversation, as we're talking about it, probably applies to relatively healthy relationships. This has taken you from 80% to 90% or 90% to 95, 95, 98. So this is not necessarily to take somebody who's at 20%, their gas tank is on E.

(21:14)
This is more than that. But it's probably, my guess is it's a history of getting this wrong. It's a history of getting this wrong that's led you to that point.

Mistye Wilson (21:23):

Well, and the vicious cycle, if the wife's been nagging and takes the husband even further into not doing, drives him even deeper into doing what he wants to do and just shuts out the nagging as you're talking again. And I asked the question and I thought, okay, well, how would I do this the way that I try to think about things like we are children of God and then our children are children of us. So how would you talk to a child? And I don't want to be demeaning to the man at all, but how would you talk to a child? And I think if my husband had been doing something repeatedly where I'm looking at him, I really have nothing positive to say to you right now at all. I think my approach would be to go to him and say, how can we be more encouraging to one another? I feel like we're in just a negative cycle right now, and I want to encourage you because I love you, and how can I help you? How can I encourage you better? So good. And then give him some ideas on how you feel like you might need to be encouraged in some areas.

Joey Odom (22:37):

Well, what I like about that is what you're telling him by saying, how can I encourage you? You're saying, and this ties back to the partnership discussion from last month, was, I'm on your side. Hey, I want you to know I'm on your team. And when you do that, what does that create? Again, it may be too far gone, but if your spouse knows, Hey, I'm on your team. I'm here to make you for the good of you. What do you need? You're totally right. And what a good way to start. By the way, that's not an easy approach. I mean, ultimately it probably is. It's for the good of the team, but it's a real risk you're taking. It is. And if you've been hurt, you've been shut down, you've been shot down. That's another limb you're walking out on. That may be a little scary if it doesn't get reciprocated.

Mistye Wilson (23:30):

Yeah, I can definitely think of if you're a woman and you just feel like you're constantly discouraged or maybe he's talking down to you, and so that's why you're sort of like, I don't even know how to encourage him. He is not encouraging me. I can see how you'd put yourself in a vulnerable situation where when you ask him that question, he may come at you really mean and say even more. So. You're right. I mean, we are definitely talking to people that it's 85% like we're on the right track. But I do definitely want, this is surely a topic for those that are in the depths right now, but there is a way out and there is a way to keep talking about it.

Joey Odom (24:13):

By the way, if you ask the question you said, and how can I encourage you? You better be ready to respond. You better be ready to listen. That's

Mistye Wilson (24:21):

The other thing, pen and paper. Yeah.

Joey Odom (24:23):

Okay. I mean, don't you think him, that's the other one. If Heath came and asked you, Hey, what can I do for you? That would be great this weekend, and you said it and then he didn't do it. It's like, why did you even ask? Yeah, right. And especially if you knew the question was really so that you would ask the same one of him. It actually can be,

Mistye Wilson (24:46):

Don't approach it that

Joey Odom (24:47):

Way, which makes it, that's where it gets really hard. Again, that's why there needs to be some health there that you can rely on. But that's a dangerous question to ask because of the answer you might get, and you just have to

Mistye Wilson (25:00):

Got to be willing to do whatever he's about to say. Yeah. I mean

Joey Odom (25:05):

Relatively

Mistye Wilson (25:06):

Within reason. Right.

Joey Odom (25:07):

And again, it's not even necessarily agreeing, it's just listening and hearing. So I was thinking about the antithesis of nagging where nagging is in the moment. It's venting. You've reached a boiling point, and I was thinking what could be the opposite of nagging? Because when you nag, you obviously want something to change. And so I thought about the concept of correction as an antithesis to nagging where the opposite of nagging is not staying silent. The opposite of nagging, I believe, is correcting because no good partner wants their spouse to suffocate the things that they're feeling inside. And so I was thinking about if nagging is saying something in the moment, correction is saying something in the right moment. You like that? I do. I just came up with that. I

Mistye Wilson (25:54):

Just on a whim. I love it. Look at you smarty.

Joey Odom (25:58):

Talk about acting like your kid. Just want a little pat on the back.

Aro Member (26:01):

The 75% of the time that you're going to spend with your child is before the age of 12, and 90% of that's before the age of 18. And I guess the question you have to ask yourself is how do you want to spend that time? Do you want to just be present and be around and be kind of the dad that's there? Or do you want to engage with your kids? And what are the barriers to engagement? And for some, it could be work life balance, some could be some other extraneous factors. But if your barrier is your phone, it was for me, then put it away and engage with your kids and use that time to spend that quality time with your kids and reengage.

Joey Odom (26:36):

We love hearing stories from the Aro community. The one you just heard actually comes from our Voices of Aro episodes where I sit down with members and they share about their stories and their lives with Aro. Make sure to check out the Voices of Aro episodes. And if you're a member who would like to share your own story with Aro, please email us at stories@goaro.com. To me, the right moment is, and again, it's funny how last month's conversation and this really dovetailing together so perfectly because it's what are those moments where that foundation of love is there? And this, again, I think you would hear, so let's think of a date night. Things are going great. You've had a glass of wine entrees come out, you're connected, you're connecting. The natural tendency would be, oh, I don't want to rock the

Mistye Wilson (27:29):

Boat. We're having boat here having a good

Joey Odom (27:30):

Night. But that's the time. That is the time to bring it up, I believe.

Mistye Wilson (27:35):

And again, I think so.

Joey Odom (27:36):

I think that's the only time, at least you are taking a risk and maybe you do ruin the date night. But I think the way you go about it, that shifts from, I'm trying to vent here to I'm coming at this from a place of love. And at that moment you have a really good foundation. And then the other side of that is it's giving you time to think through, is this actually that important to me? Wow. How important is this where nag is just that thing you're popping off. Oh, you always leave your socks there. And if that really is a thing that's probably, Hey, I know it sounds small, and I mean even like a touch on the arm, that goes a long way.

Mistye Wilson (28:21):

Right? Well, and I hate to interrupt you. Please do. But I'm on this now where nagging about something that's really not even important. So maybe we think about that first because I think that nagging, just like anger comes from hurt that had nowhere to go, right? Nagging could also come from a place of there's a deeper hurt than just your socks being on the floor. It could be a lot more than that just because if let's just say it's the socks on the floor all the time, every time, and that I'm picking up your socks and I'm not your mom. So it's a lack of respect that I'm feeling. And so I think that's where, if I'm thinking about when I nag, it comes from a feeling that I'm feeling disrespected. And so I need to think about that first because I need to figure out where the problem is, the depths of the problem. Because the nagging is just that constant tap that's just really annoying, but it's deeper than just the socks.

Joey Odom (29:35):

And you're doing, see, I'm not your mom line. That's worth drilling in on too. I bet a lot of women have said that, or at least thought that. I know I've heard it from Cristin when I've shocker left my socks on the ground real life example. But it is that, and that comes from, that comes from, that's not just something you say that is something that's really in your depths that you don't want to be. And there's probably a lot of dynamic there that goes into it. And so when you, let's say nag at the socks on the floor, it actually deprives your partner of the opportunity to understand you. I want to know that. I want to know, and by the way, I see this with Gianna, I see this with my daughter. She'll come guns blazing sometimes, and it's just like, there was one the other day, she's going into high school next year, and she came home. She goes, I am not taking honors math. And all of a sudden, what is the first thing I thought? Oh yeah, you are. Yeah,

Mistye Wilson (30:36):

You are.

Joey Odom (30:37):

Which by the way, I'd never thought about honors math before, but just because she came guns blazing as opposed to her coming and saying, Hey, I'm looking at my class schedule and I think I have a pretty full load. I'm going to be playing sports for high school next year. I don't really know to, I'm feeling like I may be a little overwhelmed. I'm thinking I'm a little uncomfortable doing this. That changes the entire thing. And so I am hoping that our kids can have the opportunity to know, to trust the other person enough to know that I can handle your feelings. I can handle those, and your feelings are valid, and I want to hear them. But I think that by not taking a step back to, like you said, analyze why that's important to you, we're not giving our partners an opportunity to understand us.

Mistye Wilson (31:24):

Right. Oh, man. Well, as you talked about Gianna, I think about teenage girls sometimes teenage boys too. But I think about teenage girls, poisonous snakes when they're babies, they're even more poisonous than the adult snake. And it's because with their venom, they don't quite know the limitation of how much venom to put in their victim. So when you say gianna's like coming at you, guns a blazing. Yes, she is. Because her little hormones and emotions are running wild, and it's just busting out of her. She hasn't learned how to contain them yet. Oh my gosh. So it made me just think of a baby viper.

Joey Odom (32:03):

What a perfect, perfect analogy.

Mistye Wilson (32:05):

She's just a baby viper.

Joey Odom (32:06):

It's so true. It's so

Mistye Wilson (32:07):

True. She'll learn how to tame the sting. I think

Joey Odom (32:13):

I want you to challenge me on this. I believe that, and I'm speaking to wives here, and I think this actually works both ways. I think that wives, for the most part, it's going to be an overgeneralization. I think you can create the husband you want with the words you use. So what I mean by that is if you want a patient husband, it's looking for those moments where he's patient and then commenting, noticing it, oh, you know what I loved? Oh my gosh, I loved it tonight when you were so patient with it, it would've been really easy. I just think that's, heck, even throw this at him. I just think it's sexy when you're patient with the kids

Mistye Wilson (32:56):

And watch him go to the floor and just sit there lovingly with that child for four hours going to be like, she thinks I'm sexy. I'm in, I'm in. So, yeah, because as you're saying that, I take it on the reverse and I think wouldn't it be so, oh, man, words right back to where you said, because if the husband comes to me and says, I really appreciate how much you do this. It wouldn't make me want to continue it that much more. It would. Yeah. So yeah,

Joey Odom (33:34):

I even noted exactly what you said. It feels like we planned these out, but it feels like there's some truth here we're hitting on because we both have said this. I even wrote in my notes here, if you want a man who works out, comment, when you see his biceps getting a little bigger and that's just going to want him to go, he's just going to want to go get more fit. So it's two things. It's one, maybe if it's something that's important to you as a wife, commenting on that. But if you know it's important to him, if you know he's been going on, let's even think of somebody who's very much overweight, for example, and they've been doing walks for a few, Hey, gosh, that's paying off. Well, that's great. And I think you can begin to create that. Men, we have very simple brains and you can, even if we know you're doing it, it doesn't really matter.

Mistye Wilson (34:25):

No, it still helps.

Joey Odom (34:26):

Absolutely. But even if we know what you're doing, we know. But if you've seen my bicycle

Mistye Wilson (34:32):

Crew,

Joey Odom (34:32):

I know. Come

Mistye Wilson (34:33):

On. I have noticed your biceps getting a lot a of

Joey Odom (34:35):

People are saying

Mistye Wilson (34:36):

That, right?

Joey Odom (34:36):

A lot of people are saying that

Mistye Wilson (34:37):

It's really been out there these days. People are talking.

Joey Odom (34:40):

But it's so true. And one thing that we talked last time two times ago, we talked about wives making dinner and how important it's to feel valued for the husband that goes and cleans up the kitchen afterwards. And again, you're going to feel, in a way, I am thinking through, I want you to actually tell me what you think about this. You don't want to feel like you're the mom. And so you don't want to powder their little tushy whenever they do any little thing actually. Okay. So I am very curious about this. You don't want to baby your husband in this way. Like, oh, that was so good when you did that. But at the same time, if you want the clean kitchen at the end of the, Hey, it just helps me so much. When you clean the kitchen, does that require a swallowing of pride? It does. Tell me about that a little bit.

Mistye Wilson (35:32):

It does. Yeah. For example, and I thought about my feeling when I first came into the kitchen Saturday, Saturday morning, I took Reese shopping for a prom dress. And so we were out for three, four hours. And when I came back, our house has been a war zone for a week or more because we are just going, going, going. And I get home and oh, my word, the kitchen is sparkling. It was so clean. It was so, so clean. It was so beautiful. And I had to tell Heath, thank you. It was obvious. I mean, if I didn't, that just would've been weird and mean, it was so obvious how clean it was and just the gratitude that I had, and I gave him a thank you, but it really should, I think should have been more right when we were talking about this right here, and you're like, how does it feel swallowing your pride?

(36:44)
When I think about it later, I think, well, he did the job that I should have done. So I think women tend to think that way as well, which is not okay for us to do that women. So yes, I think that some women, if the job is done, there's this pride thing, well, I can do it by myself. I always do, or we should have done it anyway. He should be doing that. So you do both ways. You just have to take your emotions and set them to the side and do the right thing for that other person.

Joey Odom (37:30):

And again, I think it's you, Justin Whipmill early and who is just a brilliant author. He talks about the concept of rebuke and encouragement specifically within friendships. And he talks about how encouragement, which I've never thought about this way, is just pointing out something in someone that you think they should continue doing. And in a marriage, if you want them to continue doing those things, then let's say you did. I have a tendency when I clean the kitchen to clean it, 92% of the way,

Mistye Wilson (37:58):

We call one of our kids ninety nine, ninety 9%,

Joey Odom (38:02):

7% better than

Mistye Wilson (38:03):

Me so close

Joey Odom (38:05):

And would, and Cristin's so good about this is it's so demotivating. If I were to have done 92%, by the way, I don't even see the other 8%. I think 92% to me looks like a hundred. But it's so demotivating. Be like, oh, you not going to do, oh, were you not going to wipe this part of the counter? It would be so crushing. Oh boy. It would like, oh, well, I mean, I didn't do it for thanks, but that kind of feels crappy.

Mistye Wilson (38:32):

Yeah. Well, and also in my example of this weekend where heath cleaned, he was just immaculate. And I have organized chaos in my kitchen. I know where all of my papers are that need to be signed and need to be done and sent off and mailed away, and I know where all of that stuff is. So when I come home and it's all gone, I think a tendency for some women might automatically be, well, where did you put the papers that I had? I had those there on purpose. I had everything laid out just perfectly. I think we need to refrain from doing things like that if you want for your spouse to help you, then don't nag on the little parts that the 17% that he didn't do. Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Just get over it later. Ask him, Hey honey, where did you put those papers?

Joey Odom (39:30):

And it's such a good is where I'm going back and forth my mind, but I'm telling it. So maybe let's talk this. I am talking about it from my perspective, and I understand why there would be some pushback to this, but I'm telling you how to get the most out of me as a husband is this approach. And I think a lot of husbands go in this way. So the papers example that is a later time you're sitting after dinner, you're just like, Hey, thank you for cleaning that. Hey, it means so much to me. Gosh, I know how crazy it's been. Hey, just a quick request. When you do that, I've noticed that sometimes you have a tendency to ignore that part, or you don't do the kitchen table part, or you don't wipe that down, or you move my paper. Sometimes when you're doing that, do you mind? You know what I mean? You can go about it delicately, which I know you should think. Why do I have to explain how to clean a kitchen? But if your goal actually is effectiveness, I think that's the best way.

Mistye Wilson (40:28):

Yes, I do too.

Joey Odom (40:29):

Yeah. I need a lot of handholding.

Mistye Wilson (40:31):

I know, and it's okay. We know y'all do. We know that. Which is why this conversation is really good, because I do. I need to be more affirming to my husband. It's this whole cycle of things. If I scratch your back, you scratch my back. We're both adults. We both came into this marriage because we loved each other because we valued one another. And so if that's starting to go to the wayside, which it often does because that's just natural, just pick it back up again.

Joey Odom (41:11):

I remember this when I was in seventh grade, my English teacher, Ms. Walker, jinx, central Middle School, jinx, Oklahoma. We listened to this every morning. We listened to Zig Ziglar. I don't know if you remember Zig Ziglar. He'd give these little stories, these little two minute quips of stories that were encouragement for the day. And he talked about the picture of hell where you would have, everybody was sitting at a dining table with food laid out in front of them, and they had these spoons taped to their arms that went two feet beyond their arms. And so as a result, they couldn't turn and get the spoons in their mouths. They had all this food, but they couldn't get that food in their mouths because they couldn't turn the spoon. It was too long to get in their mouths, get that visual. And so then there was a picture of heaven, and people still had the spoons on their arms sticking two feet out. But what they were doing, they were feeding the person across the table from them that grew. Oh

Mistye Wilson (42:01):

My gosh.

Joey Odom (42:03):

And this is the same thing in a marriage is that it takes, you said scratch. The danger in wanting to scratch your partner's back is not being sure if they're going to scratch your back.

Mistye Wilson (42:13):

I know. I know. But

Joey Odom (42:14):

If you can just abandon it and you can just start by scratching their back, and if they scratch your back, great. If not, that's fine. That's not great as well. But you have to put yourself out there. And it does. It requires this level of openness to rejection, and it's hard to do. And even in the next concept that may be hard for people, and this goes for both spouses, is this, and this is from your sweet husband Heath. He talked about this idea of overthinking. No one has ever been overthink enough. And I thought, so what if is we're nagging, we're overthinking things all the time. So what if we shifted from overthinking to overthinking? Oh, I

Mistye Wilson (42:56):

Love it.

Joey Odom (42:57):

Right.

Mistye Wilson (42:58):

Oh, okay.

Joey Odom (43:00):

Yeah. I love that. From the mouth of your brilliant husband, we're overthinking all the things that are going wrong and instead of overthinking, and I bet you if we started overthinking, then we wouldn't have to overthink as much.

Mistye Wilson (43:12):

Okay, listen, that's going in the depth of my brain, and I love it. I really do love that. It's so true. Yeah. I think too, if we've gotten, because we have to remember, it took years to get to this point of feeling like we're not getting our back scratched enough or that we need to scratch the other ones back more. So it took years to get here. I think about the woman who starts affirming the husband, and it's weeks and weeks and weeks, and nothing's coming from it. It takes years to have gotten where we are. It's going to take a while to get

Joey Odom (43:56):

Back. Yeah, that's right.

Mistye Wilson (43:57):

To where we want to be. So it is, it's a constant conversation with one another. It's just being real with the other one, taking time away, getting rid of the distractions and looking at one another and talking about it like humans treat the other one like a human being. Yeah, that's

Joey Odom (44:16):

Right. And this is an aside, but when you get into those conversations, and maybe this is just an entirely different, I wish my wife knew, or even I wish my husband knew. When you're getting into that conversation, when you're in that, and this is for both sides, this is for everybody. There's nothing more catastrophic to that moment than a pickup of the phone from your partner. That moment of vulnerability. I just want to tell you that, and I call it death by a thousand glances. The intimacy in our marriage is being eroded by this death by a thousand glances. So if I'm opening up, it is not easy for anybody to open up. It's not easy for men to open up and be really open and open themselves up to rejection. But I can tell you when on the other side of the table, no matter what it is, it could be so important, just is that glance and it just kills the moment.

(45:08)
It's so true. It's so true. I want to encourage everybody, even if it's whether it's a bid or not, this is where I think, again, let me put my phone down. Six most powerful words in a marriage or in a relationship is just going and getting that out of the way first. Then you're not tempted all along the way to go back to look at your phone so you feel the buzz and look at it. But if it's gone, but that will kill that. And so I want to encourage everybody that it will wear down. And eventually you're going to find your spouse is not opening up anymore because they just know when I do that, I can't really trust the other person on the other side. I know that it's been the phone snub every time. So to me, there's nothing that can be more catastrophic than that. And we got to flee as much as we can this death by a thousand glances.

Mistye Wilson (45:52):

Yeah, so true. So I already know my takeaway that I'm going with. I'm going to go home tonight. I want to talk to Heath and say, how can I encourage you more? How can I affirm you more? What's something that you're doing right now that you want me to notice that I haven't? Because if I'm not noticing and you want it, I love you enough and I care about you enough. I want to notice, and I'm sorry that I haven't, but I want to notice that in you. That's my takeaway that I'm going to go home with tonight. But you started this, what's the takeaway that you want to give all of us women that you,

Joey Odom (46:32):

By the way, I love that you just said that, and I think what you just described is an indication of a very healthy relationship to be able to ask to be spoonfed that what a great thing to ask. And you just never know sometimes what is important to the other person. For me, it was, I think it's very important just as a guideline, when you're giving a word of affirmation, if you want to give that the weight of your words behind something, I would encourage people to be very specific in those words. So it's one thing. There's a difference between saying, oh, you're awesome. That doesn't mean much. You're a great dad. That does mean more, which

Mistye Wilson (47:09):

Is how we started in the beginning when I was, and you're awesome. Okay, and

Joey Odom (47:14):

You're awesome. Let's just

Mistye Wilson (47:14):

Continue, Joey,

Joey Odom (47:15):

That was,

Mistye Wilson (47:16):

I see what you're saying. I see what

Joey Odom (47:18):

You're saying. That meant nothing to

Mistye Wilson (47:19):

Me. Okay, go ahead.

Joey Odom (47:20):

Sorry to interrupt. So you're on versus, Hey, you're a great dad. That's still good, versus, I see how great of a dad you are when you play outside with the kids, when you go tuck the kids in. I can see how great of a dad when you do. So if you can find that the more specific you can give a piece of feedback, that's when it becomes more and more meaningful. This is

Mistye Wilson (47:39):

A revelation for

Joey Odom (47:39):

Me. It's really good. And by the way, you're a great dad, is awesome to hear. It is definitely another thing, that very specific moment, whatever those things are, and I think that goes for both, because what that shows the other person is you really do notice me. And by the way, you said notice early on, and you may not have realized it, but this comes back to all of this, comes back to a lifestyle of notice. Not coincidentally the term oral means to notice, but that's what it is. We want people to live a lifestyle of notice. And so if I can notice they're doing that and you can go specifically with them, that's going to go away or that's going to continue to perpetuate. I would also encourage people don't make things up, so don't go. That's meaningless. And I want you to exactly what you said, it's verbalize just what you notice.

(48:30)
You noticed heath's washer board abs. That's right. And wasn't, you didn't make it up. You just noticed it. So I would encourage everybody, as you see anything, see something, say something. If you see something, just verbalize it. So for me, it was exactly what you said. It's this week for everybody. What's the one thing, just, can you notice one thing? I think we can build up a muscle here, and we can do this over time. This can be just a lifestyle. It can become a daily thing and become morning and night thing. But just for this week, just one thing, can you notice something and then verbalize it? Don't assume the other person knows that you've noticed. And again, I think in doing that, you can create the spouse that you want by encouraging the things that you're seeing them doing.

Mistye Wilson (49:19):

I love it.

Joey Odom (49:19):

It's good, right?

Mistye Wilson (49:20):

It's really good.

Joey Odom (49:22):

And it's so freaking basic. I feel like it's such a dumb, dumb talking about it, because I'm not great at this. But it's such low hanging

Mistye Wilson (49:30):

Fruit. I know. Well, we just get lost in the every day, right? And that's if you're getting lost in the every day, so many days, so many months and so many years like this does, it falls away. And just a little reminder, a little nudge goes a long way. Yeah.

Joey Odom (49:46):

Take us home.

Mistye Wilson (49:47):

Yeah. I love this, Joey. Thank you so much. I love, well, did I love being on the other side? I'm not really sure. Like I said, I was pretty sweating in the beginning, and I still am now. But I really appreciate you just being honest and just coming to me and kind of reversing the roles here so that we can think about it as women, because we do love our husbands, and we do want for you guys to feel loved and be held high, because that's ultimately how we feel. So thank you for just being honest. And I love these times with you.

Joey Odom (50:21):

I do too. You crushed it. Okay, gang, the drill. The goal of this episode is to start a conversation for you. This is purely Misty's and my experience and our experience is not your experience. So I want you to do a couple of things. You know the drill, one of them, send this episode to your spouse, to your partner. Secondly, schedule a time to sit down, go on a date night, have some back porch time, phone free. Remember you, me, phone free, some oomph time, just the two of you talking about this, opening up this conversation for you. That's our goal, is to start the conversation and for you to continue it, to make your relationship stronger, for you to be closer together, to understand each other even more. And hey, if you have an idea for a topic for I wish my husband knew, I wish my wife knew, please just send it into stories@gorao.com.

(51:05)
Our production team will take care of that. I promise it will stay secret from Misty or me, depending on whose perspective it comes from. But we would love to hear what topics you want to hear about. We'll send that to stories@gorao.com. Thank you so much for joining us for this week. I hope you enjoyed that turn of the tables. We can't wait to see you again next week on the next episode of The Aro podcast. The Aro Podcast is produced and edited by the team at Palm Tree Pod co. Special thanks to Emily Miles for video and digital support, and to our executive producer Aro's own, Katelyn Farley.

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